In this episode of the Future of Team podcast, hosts James Giroux and Dee Teal dive into ’11 Promises from a Manager,’ a viral tweet by Matthew Rex. James and Dee explore each promise, evaluating their implications and sharing personal stories. They discuss the importance of consistent one-on-ones, delivering fresh feedback, celebrating wins, and fostering a culture of trust. The hosts also delve into managing remote teams, balancing structure with flexibility, and ensuring transparent communication. Tune in for practical insights on creating a supportive and productive team environment.
Transcript
James: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Future of Team podcast. My name is James Giroux and I am joined by my awesome, amazing, wonderful co host Dee Teal. Hi, Dee.
Dee Teal: Hi, James. Nice to be here today, as
James: always. It is starting the weather has changed to the point now here where it has gone from the cool warmish bit of spring to the hot bit of spring right before it’s officially summer.
It is nice, but we’ve got flies now in the house and that is not cool. Wow.
Dee Teal: I mean, I live in Australia and so there are screens, so we don’t get the fly situation in house, but we have the opposite of course. So it is cooling down. It’s getting wet. It’s not as wet as it normally is. So, I don’t hate that, but I’m sure the farmers are not loving it.
But yeah, we’re definitely closing in on Melbourne winter, which is cold and dark and everybody walking around in black and big puffy coats and, and, and moaning about the fact that it’s cold. But of course, none of us want to live anywhere else, so.
James: Well, this, this episode, we thought we’d do something a little bit different.
So rather than having some big topic that we’re going to do, we’ve just finished a couple of episodes on feedback and performance improvement, which were big episodes, big topics to talk about. We thought we would do like a bit of a react Episode where we look at what’s going on online and in the world of work and we have a bit of a reaction to it.
And this is something that Dee had mentioned a little while ago, this article or a tweet that somebody had made called the 11 promises from a manager. And we thought it would be fun to go through each of these 11 promises and React, respond give our own two cents on what we think about it.
And share some stories. So without any further ado, let’s jump into this. The person that wrote this tweet, it went viral is called Matthew Rex. And so he wrote this thread and he’s got these 11 promises that he’ll do as a And yeah, he starts with this one and I’ll just read it out. It is, we’ll have a weekly one on one.
I’ll never cancel this meeting, but you can cancel it whenever you like. It’s your time.
Dee Teal: That’s the critical part of it, right? It’s your time. And I think the wider question or the wider sort of context around something like this is what is a one to one for, right? What is a one to one for? I love it. I love that sense of, I know I’m going into my manager, I know that this time is there for me, how things are going with me, what, it’s, but I, There is a sense to where this is where your touch point and you’re evaluating how people are doing and how they’re achieving what they need to be achieving.
But that sense of I’m here for you is I think the critical part of that line. And I guess underscores kind of, I guess what you would probably call the culture of the whole rest of the 12 items that. That they ought to live on items that, that Matthew outlines.
James: I think there is for me, like a one on one is a couple of things, right?
Like for, for me, if I’m starting a new role, it is my confidence boost of the week. It is my, my check in. Am I on the right track? Am I doing what I need to be doing? Am I missing the mark on anything? You know, and it’s a chance for my people lead my, my, my manager to come in and be able to say, no, you’re okay, you’ve got it.
Or, let’s tweak this or let’s do that. Which I find very helpful as somebody who struggles a lot with imposter syndrome, struggles a lot with insecurity about whether I’m doing the right thing in the right way at the right time. Right? Like I have confidence in my skillset and I know, I do kind of know what I’m, what What I’m talking about, but I like that check, especially when it’s about ways of working, right?
Like oh, you might know how to do that great in your last role, but in this space This is how we
Dee Teal: do it. This is how spin on it I think that the demonstration of this is the difference between top down leadership and servant leadership, right? Mm
James: hmm
Dee Teal: and a top down leadership situation.
You’re coming into a one to one and you’re there and As the manager to make sure that your person is doing the things that they’re supposed to be doing. Whereas in a servant leadership situation, while all of those things are things that you are interested in as a manager and as a, you know, someone who represents the company and wants the company to succeed and wants your team to succeed when you’re a servant leader and you’re coming in with that sense of I’m here for you and I want to make sure James that you are Getting that confidence boost that you need at the beginning of the week.
That’s the difference in tone between what Matthew says around here, at least for me, what Matthew says around here’s what this meeting is about.
James: I like that. I’ll never cancel this meeting, but you can cancel it whenever you like. In that, in that statement, there’s a lot being communicated. It is that, and it’s something I struggled with, like in past roles, canceling one on ones, I, I, it didn’t happen often, but it always became this, this message I was sending, whether I intended it or not.
And I think in the early days, I probably didn’t intentionally or understand the messaging that I was sending. But as a manager, yeah, as a manager to my reports was something else is more important than you are.
Dee Teal: Exactly. Exactly.
James: And I learned, very early on that. I can’t do that.
You can’t do that. There is not, regardless of what it is, even if it’s the CEO. Coming in right and saying something like they ask you for your availability in the most part, right? Yeah, these yeah, these other important meetings will ask for and look for your availability before scheduling and Because I’m always nervous about these kinds of things, there were, in the early days some times where I was like, well, this big meeting is happening, it’s cross departmental, it’s involving three layers of leadership, I really need to go to that, and so I need to cancel this, because they’re not offering two times for this meeting, they’re only offering it once.
So, sometimes those, those, those happen, and you can reschedule a one on one, I’ve done that a number of times. But yeah, that predictability and that, that sense of no, I’m always going to carve out space for you is really important.
Dee Teal: Yep.
James: The second item or the second law, if you will or promise from a manager is our one on one agenda will be in the meeting invite.
So we remember important topics, but. You’re always free to use the time for whatever’s on your mind.
Dee Teal: Again, I’m here, I’m here for you. What do you think of this?
James: So this one caused a reaction to me because I’ve had, like, I’ve, I’ve read books like Oh, what is Kim, Kim Scott or Kim Kanda radical. Yeah.
Radical candor. That’s the book. And she talks about The space or maybe if not her someone else mentions this idea of The one on one is your direct reports time and it’s their job to fill in the agenda with what’s important to them And i’ve struggled with that Because when i’ve given that freedom to my direct reports, we they don’t prioritize it, right?
It becomes something where we go into this meeting and It is their time Right And I’m sitting there, but it’s, it, I had this expectation, maybe I, I need to adjust, but I have an expectation of some structure, right? Some, some sense of, you know, things, so I, I adapted from that. Like I used to have a very, you know, here’s the 15 tasks that, you know, or projects that we’re, we’re working on.
Very task oriented, right? I went completely the opposite direction to people, right? And them telling me what they wanted. And I had to try to find this balance in the middle on the agenda where there’s some key things that are important. What are you thinking about? What’s, what do you write?
Blocks? What are the, yeah, we celebrate, right. Or is anything that you’ve got questions about any feedback and it just became these four These four big questions that stayed the same on everyone that created enough space for us to have very lengthy conversations.
Dee Teal: We’ve had in my time as a manager, we had different tools that we were using.
We had one called small improvements and there was elements around that, that We, the meeting agenda would pop up. So there was some automation around this and you know, you would set the kind of core framework. Again, it wasn’t as hard and fast rule. You weren’t, it wasn’t a checklist that you were having to complete at the end of the month, but it was just this light touch framework that helped.
Set the scene. So it’s not, it’s not all of the responsibility on the report to actually come in and say Here’s what I want to talk about. It’s the Here’s just the light framework around it. So I think that’s the kind of middle ground that makes sense, right? It’s like these are the kind of broad strokes that we’re going to talk about what’s going well, what’s not going well.
And from there you know, I think you’ve got some good jumping off points for a conversation. It’s helpful.
James: Do you include professional development conversations in your regular one on ones or do you schedule those separately?
Dee Teal: Oh, it’s been a while. Yeah.
That comes back to point number one, right? Whose time is it? And is it their, is their time or your time? I, I wouldn’t say a hard and fast no. I think a lot of that will depend on how the conversation goes. If somebody comes to you and says this is not going well and it points towards a performance issue or a skills gap or something.
Absolutely happy to address that. But if there was a specific thing that I was wanting to talk to them about, I mean, my approach for this is usually, do you mind if I give you some feedback about something and the context of where and when that happens?
the situation. If it was something that was super concerning, then I might well schedule that separately. Or talk to them and say, Hey, I’ve got a thing that we need to talk about. we can talk about it here and now if you wish. Or we can schedule another time. What would you like to do? So, I mean, there’s a thing coming up in the list of around surprises.
I think that’s kind of where I lean is try to reduce the number of surprises. So I wouldn’t ever spring that on a one to one where we have a generally set structure. But if it came naturally through the conversation, then I wouldn’t shy away from it.
James: I was thinking more like career development or career advancement, career progression conversations.
Would you include those in one on ones or have a separate meeting?
Dee Teal: So part, I, again, I wouldn’t shy away from it. It wasn’t generally something that was on the core agenda. And so I think, you know, In the, in the cadence of how you do some of these things, it’s going to vary from business to business, size availability of time.
But I think with, again, if it comes up in the context of where you were wanting to go, there’s only so many hours in the day, but it’s not something that was, would generally be on the core agenda. But if you have a cadence, Of feedback if you have. I mean, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t, but it’s not something that at the end of every week, it again, also depends on the cadence of your one-to-ones.
If you’re only meeting someone once a month, A why, but B you’ve got a shoehorn. A lot of stuff in there. If you are, if the gaps between your meetings. Ah, white. If you’re meeting a lot more regularly, I feel like you would have a stronger relationship. You would know more about that person. It would be a lot easier to roll that stuff in.
James: All right. I could say more. But we’ve got, we’ve got what, 9 more promises to get through? So promise number three, when I schedule a meeting with you, I’ll always say when I schedule it, what it’s meant to be about. I will not schedule meetings without an agenda.
Dee Teal: Gold, absolute gold. This doesn’t have to be with a one to one.
If I’m creating a meeting with anybody, I mean, and my agenda might be a comment in the description that says we need to talk about this, this, this, this, and this. It’s not a formal structure that I’ve got friends that love that kind of detail and we’ll fill in the whole thing and we’ll actually have that plan and almost have it timed.
And I’m like, I’m not that person, but that sense of what is this meeting for?
James: So it goes back to that idea of no surprises that and, and just people’s own, you know, imaginations, right? I, I tend to because of imposter syndrome, somebody says like, and I’ve had this happen, you know, a people leader, someone said, Hey, can 15 minute with me or schedule a chatter? Hey, I want to talk to you a little bit later.
And I get nothing else. And That is the, for me, that is the worst because my mind just starts going crazy. I did something wrong. Somebody has given negative feedback and, and, and keep in mind, this is all based probably on past experiences and past work trauma, right? So trauma, PTSD, you know, so, you know, my mind just cannot, cannot get it to be a positive thing.
It will always end up being a negative thing in my mind. And because of that, right, it’s, it’s really challenging and I just think it’s, it’s a good rule of thumb regardless that if you’re scheduling a meeting with somebody, give them clarity about what it’s about. Because that’s so important. I have a
Dee Teal: story.
I, the meeting in which I learned that my role was being made redundant. Was titled catch up
and the only clue, and I was oblivious, had no idea that’s what was coming. The only clue that I had was you can bring someone to this meeting if you want, which is a thing in HR culture here, that if there’s big changes afoot, again, didn’t really grok that just blithely going about my life. And then I’m like, Oh, why would I need to do that?
Show up to the call CEO, COO. Bombshell, you know, and they, you know, very quickly how I felt about that. And I gave them very strong feedback about that. And I do hope desperately that in the situations where they’ve had to go through that since which they have, that they’ve been able to learn from that and be more direct, but there no surprises, please.
No surprises, good or bad.
James: I have a similar story. I got off a plane. Then went on a train, then ended up back home, late night, little bit of sleep, jet lagged. The next morning, first meeting of the day was post event catch up, and it was HR manager and me being made redundant, right? Like it was, and I had no clue.
I, I had spent that morning gathering my thoughts, putting together my list of things to chat about, like it was completely out of the blue. And I was just, you know, talk back and forth about the best ways to do that. But
Dee Teal: that’s another, that’s another, that’s another podcast episode. But yeah, that sense of.
I’ll always say what it’s meant to be about.
James: I get that.
Dee Teal: It’s difficult. I get that. It’s difficult.
James: It’s a good lead in, I think, to number four, the fourth promise, which is when I drop into your DMs, I’ll always say hi. And why no suspense, no small talk while you are wondering what I want.
Dee Teal: That’s an interesting one, right?
Because there is that dynamic when you are somebody’s manager, that sense of authority. That, yeah, first, and certainly for some people who are more sensitive than others, that first sense of, oh, crap, what have I done? What’s, what’s wrong here? So, again, I think that’s critical, but I think that whole sense of when I drop into your DMs and just drop a high.
James: Yeah.
Dee Teal: Like, I want to, reach down Slack and go, what are you trying to do to me? That’s not just for a manager, that’s just for anybody. But
James: it’s interesting that that this manager promises no small talk while you’re wondering what I want. So there’s no like, Hey, what’d you get up to at the weekend? You know, blah, blah, blah.
How are things going? It’s like, hi, I want to talk to you about this. Da da da da da. How are you doing? What’s going on? Oh, I’m good. You know, what about that specifically? Are you after? You know, like it’s just, it’s, it’s we’re here to do business, right?
Dee Teal: Yeah. And I, I, I will. I mean, I’m really good at written comms.
So I will often soften things up, but I’ll never do it. That needs a response that that becomes the thing. It’ll be high. Hope you had a great weekend. Hey, I saw this on the, and I did this. I need to talk to you about this. So I’ll soften it up, but it’s not a thing where it’s time wasting to try and avoid getting to the point or it’s, but there is that sense of I’m making it.
I’m connecting with it and with you personally, but I have a thing that I need or that we
James: need to talk about. One thing you and I have spoken a little bit about is cultural differences. Where in some cultures being that direct is actually not how you do things. Yeah. And can be considered rude and obviously within the context, this promise is probably one you’ve got to consider as well.
If you’re in a global company, figuring out what your ways of working are and working together to you know, agree on those is, is really important. Get those working agreements in place. Yeah. All right. Next number five. This one’s interesting. News or announcements that significantly impact you, your work or your team will come from me directly in a one on one not revealed in a big meeting.
Dee Teal: Okay. So that relies on the company further up, not doing that to you, right? So it’s a, it’s a, Valiant promise to make, I don’t know that it’s always possible. I think, I think if I was however, and I don’t know if I had this in mind when I was made redundant, I had a really, I was managing nine people at the time that I was made redundant and what the, one of the changes was, was.
I mean, we all know that managing nine people is probably not sustainable if you’re trying to do other things. So there was the sense of my role change was also going to be one in which there are a lot of people that I had been managing and had really good relationships with that would then go on to be managed by someone else.
And so communicating that it was really important for me when I you know, we were going through that process and I was outlining to my managers, here’s how I want. And I gave them, I gave them a timeline. It’s actually a pretty good story at the end of the day about how it all did play out for everybody’s benefit in the end.
But I laid out this timeline. Okay. So in this period, let’s figure out what this is going to look like in this period. This is when I’m going to communicate this to the team. And then in this period, here’s what we’re going to do so that it wasn’t the sense of, Oh, hi, these roles changing. She’s not going to be your manager anymore.
That was information that I was communicating directly to my reports. And I think that was, it was very important to me.
James: I didn’t get the option on that. I was told my role was being made redundant. And I. At least in one instance, this happened, you know, my role was made redundant and my manager actually told my direct reports they didn’t, in, in meetings, didn’t tell me that they were doing that.
So, yeah.
Dee Teal: So that was your role being made redundant in your tenure with the company was ending. Right. Yeah, so my role was being made redundant and I was being offered an alternative role. So this wasn’t me leaving the company, this is how things are going to change. So there is a difference in that. It’s not Dee’s being made redundant or you’re being made redundant and You finish now and here’s the, so we had a lot of time to go, this is a company structural change.
This is what’s going to happen. Here’s how it’s going to play out. And I was actually able to have a hand in, in making that. So yeah, there is a difference there, but
James: here’s one that another promise that, that we’ve spoken about a lot recently. Number six is you’ll get feedback from me when it’s fresh.
There will be no feedback in your performance review that you’re hearing for the first time. Yeah, just absolutely right. There’s not much else to say here. I mean, we, we could, we, we’ve done two episodes.
Dee Teal: We’ve got stories, but we, yeah, yeah, yeah. I learned that one the hard way. Don’t ever do that to anybody.
Because that. That’s, it’ll, it’ll bite you.
James: And it’s really, it’s really important. So I, you know, I had a interesting conversation with my wife today who had an experience with her manager at the weekend. They were doing this big event and, and for, for their workplace and her manager came in and. After a wildly successful event where, you know, they had more people showing up than they were expecting, the, the manager came in and didn’t say, didn’t acknowledge any of the effort or the work that had been done.
All right. And just went into like the tasks of what, what needed to happen or what was missing or what needed to get fixed and just, you know, in some ways they had, they have such a good relationship that. It’s almost like this expectation that it’s going to be good, right? It’s almost like there’s this expectation that, yeah, of course.
Why, why would we need to talk about you doing a great job? You’re always doing a great job, right? That’s sort of like, like it’s, it’s a weird thing. But she was able to, she, she was sort of taken, taken back, right? Like about with, with that sort of just feedback dump. And was able to go back to her manager a couple hours later and say, Hey, by the way, that was not cool.
The way that you gave that feedback. And it made me feel like this. And you didn’t even acknowledge the hard work that we’d done at all. Right? Like I, it just really did not land the way that I think you thought it was going to. Celebrate the wins. Celebrate the wins. Celebrate the wins. And and he just went, you’re absolutely right.
I shouldn’t have done that. I’m sorry. Yeah, acknowledge it right away. But because there was the feedback because the the Situation was fresh. It was a lot easier for that feedback to be given and acknowledged and You know for somebody to go back and reflect on because it was fresh if when yeah when we hold things We wait to give it until you know It’s at a designated time.
That’s challenging. And I’ll see,
Dee Teal: I think it relies, it relies on there being a culture with that. Of that continuous learning culture, right? Where people go, yeah, I am open to being wrong. I’m being open to being told that I’m wrong, which is, of course, is a two way street. But yeah,
James: I think it’s also a bit of a personality thing too.
There are people out there who thrive in structure and are also bound by structure. And what we have to do as people leaders in those situations is make sure that we’re able to identify those people who are bound by structure and create the permission where it needs to be slotted in for them to be able to do it.
When you are a leader of leaders. If you have somebody who is bound by process, right? And that’s not necessarily a negative thing, right? You need those kinds of people and they’re, they’re incredibly valuable. But if you, if you know of one of your managers who’s managing others, who is bound by process, one of the things you’ll have to navigate with them is that sort of fresh feedback thing and coming up with a system with them that empowers and enables them to be able to provide fresh feedback.
Yeah. So it’s just something else to think about, not just about managing direct reports, but that next layer of managing managers as well.
Dee Teal: Yeah.
I think I wasn’t, I was just scanning ahead to the rest of the list to see if what I was thinking in relation to your wife’s experience was, there is also a sense to, as a manager, knowing what motivates and demotivates your team. So for a team, you know, in the situation where that balloon burst of here’s all of this feedback.
Like, I think if you’re an aware manager, knowing, going into that and being able to, yeah, I mean, the, the point of that story, I guess, is the being able to go back and give that feedback at the time and being open to being that feedback. I sit there and hear that story and go, Oh, all I could feel is the crushing balloon pop of, Oh, my moment is gone.
That is so demotivating for me. That just becomes a spiral of. Oh, why do I even bother blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, addressing those in the moment’s important.
James: And you’re absolutely right. And, and that’s how she responded and that’s how she felt and, and then fairly honestly and openly. And, and you know, it’s, we can talk a little, I mean, this is an aside, but like, you know, being somebody who talks about this kind of stuff and lives and breathes, you know, people and culture.
And then my spouse, my partner is somebody who, Navigate some of these these things. It’s like, you know, she she talks up to me a lot about like just you know methodologies and ways of Approaching these situations as as spouses and partners do like that’s just part of how you
Dee Teal: yeah
James: how you do life together But it’s really it’s been really interesting the more I’ve I’ve leaned into You know this sort of People and culture stuff that she’s felt more permission to talk about these kinds of things and we’ve been able to that’s awesome that kind of stuff together, but yeah, you know, yeah, it’s That’s fresh feedback.
It’s you know that the right feedback. It’s yeah all those kinds of things Oh this one is it This next promise is a really good one and I think it’s one that’s important for all of us. It’s easier in outcome oriented workplaces and probably more white collar environments, which most of us are if you’re listening to this podcast.
But, I trust you to manage your own time. This is the seventh promise. I trust you to manage your own time. You don’t need to clear with me in advance your time away from your keyboard or out of office. This
Dee Teal: why am I thinking about that so hard? I think there is, there are elements around this. So my first thought was, But what about booking holidays and how that’s going to affect my clients? I do kind of need to clear that. And we have structures in the company that I’m with now, where depending on how long you’re planning to take off kind of affects how much notice you need to give.
But if you’re sitting at your keyboard and you’re ducking off to make a cup of tea, the whole sense of having to drop into Slack and say, 10 minutes, I mean. I certainly, so it’s finding that balance I think. Like I wouldn’t have any expectation on, or I need to go out for two hours to go to a, I wouldn’t clear that in advance.
Somebody declared that in advance. Because again, so long as the work’s getting done, it’s that start with trust. Sorry, now I’m brain dumping it. The important word on that line is trust, right? I trust you. We’ve got stuff that we need to get to. I know that we’re going to get to it. So all of the stuff in between is not monumentally important.
James: So as a leader, the question you need to ask yourself as you react to these things, Do you trust your team to manage their time? And if not, why not? And what do you as a manager need to do or consider or change about your approach in order to be able to grant that trust? Because you as a leader, as a people leader, as a manager, you don’t need to know when somebody is taking two hours to go to grow, you know, haircut and dentist appointments in the middle of the day.
If you’re in a workplace that’s outcome driven and it’s not impacting deadlines in a negative way and it’s not, there’s no dependencies that are being messed up as a result of that, you know, it’s, it’s fine. And again, you’ve got to have the right systems in place. You’ve got to have the right controls in place and it does depend role to role how that’s going to go.
if you’re dealing with clients or you’re dealing with deadlines and you’ve got dependencies that changes the impact, right? And a good people leader is looking not just at that one on one relationship but the whole impact of the team and their work and their deliverables on the rest of the team. The project or the group or the business.
So there’s, there’s, there’s more things to go. But where for me, I think is, is important is you don’t need to ask permission to go on holiday, right? Or to take time away or to have a mental health day. You just need to let me know that you’re not going to be in and that’s enough. I don’t need to know the specifics of your sick day, right?
Or your, your, your leave. Yeah. Right. Yeah. If you’re going on annual leave. And like good, like you don’t need to ask my permission to go on annual leave, but I would like to have advanced notice if it’s an, if it’s a lengthier annual leave, but you can work that out in your working agreements and your ways of working together as well.
Dee Teal: Yeah.
James: Cool. Any other thoughts on that?
Dee Teal: No, no. It’s that whole start with trust. And so long as you’ve got all the checks and balances in place, That if that trust it’s on both sides to maintain it. Right. So if you’re a direct report. Yeah. Yeah. Have we got an episode about that? Start with trusting.
That was early on. Right. I’ve lost kind of track, but anyway,
James: Remote leadership one. Yeah. Where we talked about that. It’s a thread. We’ve got two threads that we mentioned in or two slogans that we mentioned in every episode start with trust and leadership is intentional. I think those two things that keep coming up time and again.
Well, we’ve talked anyway, number
Dee Teal: eight, number eight. Your work gets done your way. My focus is on outcomes, not output. Once we are clear on where we need to go, how to get there is up to you. If I ever find it necessary to suggest a specific approach, I will supply an example.
Interesting. Yeah, I think what do you think? No, no, you go ahead.
James: Well, I, I think it’s, it’s the segue from what we talked about in promise number seven, right? Where I trust you to manage your own time. You can do that when your focus is on outcomes, not output. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It’s those two go hand in hand and it’s not always possible in every role.
The, yeah, I mean, it’s like, like we were just saying, it starts with trust. This, this is a trust driven approach to getting work done.
Dee Teal: Well, and it’s also indicative of hiring people that know their stuff or hiring people that, that have skills that you don’t have. If you go, this is the point at which we get to.
How do we get there? Talk me how, through how we get there or, and I think in project management too, obviously a bunch of different ways that people approach project management. Some of them will be around particular frameworks that, you know, specifically if you’re jumping into agile, that there are. You know, guidelines around that, and, you know, particularly in the kind of cadence and structure of meetings and, and the way that you structure and build up the work.
But within that, the way that you work with your team, the way that you interact with your clients, that all comes, you know, every person brings their own different approach to that. And you’ve been hired to get a project from at least me as a project manager hired to get the project from start to finish.
And so, yeah, again, that whole sense of I’m not top down telling you micromanaging about what you should do. That’s what this is. This is I am not a micromanager and, and, and we love that. I love that in any way. I can’t, I don’t want to speak for you. I presume you don’t want to be.
James: Well, let’s keep going.
I’m just conscious of time and our listeners, our Spending their time here. We’ve got three more to go. Number nine, a team is strongest when it’s working together, looking after one another and taking care of each other, please look to your left and to your right for opportunities to help your colleagues, please ask for help when you need it.
Nobody works alone. Ooh.
Dee Teal: I know, right? It’s powerful and rare. How rare is that?
James: Mm hmm. This is a huge feature building one.
Dee Teal: Oh, completely.
James: Yeah.
Dee Teal: How, how good would it feel to know that you’re working in a company when the managers are saying to the team, nobody works alone. Look to your left and your right.
How do you do that in a remote company? I mean, that sounds like an episode to me in and of itself, but the, how that sense of, you know, I’ve got your back. I’m here with you. I’m not trying to undercut you like we’re in this together and let’s get there together. I mean, that’s, that’s tear inducing. That’s beautiful.
And I wish it wasn’t as rare as it is.
James: There’s, there’s something about it. Like just thinking practically about how this could look right. Like for you as a, as a. People leader, I think part of it is shared ownership, right? That you have, if you’re, if you know, you’re following number eight, which is about outcomes, not output, then how the work gets done is less important than that.
The work is than the outcome of is, is there. And so if, if you’re not worrying about when people are working or all of those kinds of things and, and the, how the work gets done, then. Then you’re actually giving your team permission to work together. And there’s no reason why, you know Rahul and Jack can’t work together on something and bring in, you know, Sally or Hannah to support that and get it done.
Right. Like, it’s, it’s all in that approach. I would love to say that. You know, none of us create our own silos, but I think we all naturally do, right? Especially in remote work where you are alone, right? And you sort of self serve and you have to be, at least to some degree, self sufficient in getting things done.
Dee Teal: Yeah.
James: Being able to put your hand up and say you need help.
Dee Teal: Well, also, I think this is where in Agile or, or in a scrum where you have a scrum master who’s responsible both for clearing blockages to allow the team to do their work, but then also to be coaching and building that team. It’s also having that approach.
I’ve been able to see that and to prompt people. Because it’s not always the first thing that somebody will think to do and it’s like, oh, hey, I’m, I’m stuck on this thing. Well, you can see somebody who’s gone quiet because they’re clearly churning through something, you know, and again, we’re in software development.
So if it’s, you know, stuck on a gnarly piece of code that they’re struggling with, just that having that moment to go, Hey, so and so, And being able to see that and make and facilitate those connections rather than always. And I think the more as a manager and coach that you’re doing that, that it’s also kind of helps build up that sense of, you know, helping each other and facilitating that.
So yeah,
James: we’ve got two more, two to go. Number 10, I trust you to skip level and talk to my manager or other senior management about anything you feel is relevant. You don’t need to clear it with me and I’m not going to get weird about it when you do.
Dee Teal: How secure is this guy? I mean,
James: like, are they the top leader in their business?
Like, let’s be real here. You know, who, who isn’t going to feel a little weird when, like, There’s a don’t
Dee Teal: make it weird for the report. Sure. Yeah. I mean, you might not even know. I mean, you might not even know that they’re doing that, but giving somebody permission to say, and that you’re not going to make it weird for them.
James: Yeah.
Dee Teal: That’s really helpful. Even if you do perhaps maybe a little bit feel weird. You wouldn’t make, you wouldn’t put that on the report.
James: I’ve had my manager’s schedule one on ones with my team as just part of their regular routine. And when it’s part of the systemic way that they work, right? It takes a little bit of that weirdness out of it, right?
And I also think when you’ve got a strong relationship with your manager That becomes less Of a weird thing because you’re already talking about that. Anyway, yeah, i’m gonna ask about how How it is to work with you. Yes. I’m going to ask them about their work. Of
Dee Teal: course. I’m managing you. They need to know how you’re doing.
James: Right. And, and, and when it’s a direct report going to them, I’m hoping that if there’s anything I need to hear, my manager is going to tell me about it. Right. Because again, if we’re operating with no surprises. Yeah, that that conversation is going to be open and what’s really cool Is if you can get into a spot where your direct reports have a strong enough relationship with your people leader that that becomes part of their professional development and the replacing of you Right.
I’m always a big fan of replacing yourself in a role. So like, Hey, if I’ve got two or three of my direct reports, you have this really strong relationship with my manager. And if I’m on leave for three weeks, any one of them can jump in and go and do what they need to do in order to keep things moving forward.
And my manager as well, doesn’t feel weird or awkward about connecting with my team directly and following up on things. Right. I don’t want to be a blocker. To that relationship. I actually want to be a facilitator of that.
Dee Teal: Yeah, I think that’s so important. That sense of, we’re part of a bigger whole, we’re part of a bigger organism.
And I think you can see this, and I think what this is also saying is, again, it’s speaking against that top down, hierarchical, controlling, controlling. leadership where somebody’s insecurity means that I need to hold all of this to myself because I can’t let that be any wider Because that will impact me and my security.
So, And I think it’s interesting because I I went when I was with human made I started when the company was About 40 people and by the time that I left we were over or just over a hundred so we had gone through that transition where we were all pretty much managed directly by the CEO and Then had introduced this management and leadership structure.
And so That was a really big transition for Tom, the CEO, because he’d been in the space where he was getting to see everybody and meet with everybody and feel like part of that. And then as you abstract that leadership into, you know, that those new layers. He was not having that opportunity and I don’t want to speak for him, but that sense of still being able to maintain the connection with the people that are building your company, I think is as important and our ability as managers to hold that as important as well, I think is.
You know where he’s going with that.
James: All right, last one. Number 11. 11th promise. I will attribute credit appropriately to you and your team. I will never exaggerate my own role or minimize your contribution. I’ll be especially certain to nail down attribution when senior management are hearing of our accomplishments.
I mean,
Dee Teal: I hate, I was going to say this is a no brainer, right? This is the dream. I wish it was reality for everyone.
James: It definitely comes across as a bit of a reaction probably to some situations they’ve been in where some things have happened. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I can’t not agree with it. It’s, I’ve had these situations where it, you know, it hasn’t felt like my contribution has been acknowledged, right, or, but I’ve also had situations where it’s been very much acknowledged and I get to celebrate those achievements as like these pinnacle moments of my career.
So yeah, no, it’s.
Dee Teal: I think the whole list speaks to self awareness, maturity. Confidence and security in and of that leader’s identity. Self and doing their best to be the kind of leader that has that sense of I’m here for you, has that sense of servanthood. And it’s not about there being a people manager or there being a manager of this is something that builds up me.
And this is our relationship is something that benefits me. Like we are here to do a job. I am open and expansive. Enough in and of myself to be able to bring you into that. And for us to be here together, moving this company forward. And I think that’s what I loved about it. I mean, this is two years old now, and I, it’s timeless for me in that sense of, I want to be as a people manager, the best person to bring the people that I’m with, elevate them, see them grow.
Because when we all do, you know, it’s that rising boat, rising tide lifts all boats. Well, that sense of we all grow and achieve together. We all get where we need to go together. We are better together. And I can’t let my insecurities get in the way.
restrict that. So I will be expansive. At least that’s what I like to think. I look at that and go, this is the kind of person that I want to be. What’s the leader I want to have?
James: Leader I want to have, leader I want to be. Well, we’re going to stop here because we’ve been going for a while now and we’ve got through all 11.
Woohoo. We did. I’m curious. What do you think? I’d love to hear what
Dee Teal: they think.
James: Yeah, exactly. I’m, I’m curious to our listeners and viewers, do you agree with these 11? Are there any that you would change any that you would add? And what do you think it takes to create an environment where all of these can happen at the same time?
Look at your own leadership, look at your own workplace. And if you don’t have control over the whole company, what’s in your control? That you can actually do and maybe you’re not even a manager. You’re just somebody who Is passionate about culture and team and you’re like even yourself Are there things here that you can be doing and on this list now that set you up?
For that kind of culture and and workplace you wanna be in later on.
Dee Teal: I love how Matthew finishes off. Sorry to cut you off ’cause I know you were just about to sign off there. I love how he finishes off. If we trust each other, we can learn and grow together. That’s how I wanna work with you. Trust that’s a great sign off and I think it encapsulates it all together well.
Thanks, James. It’s been fun talking about it.
James: No worries. And we’ll revisit all of these, I think, in future episodes, cause they’re all great things. But on that note, don’t forget to like, subscribe, hit that notification bell, do those things that you need to do. Share this with all of your amigos, your friends, your compadres, your chingus, whatever it takes.
And we will see you next time on the next episode. Very excited to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
Dee Teal: Thank you. See you next time
